[time-nuts] Re: HP5360A

[paul swed]

Alan at the time I believe it was considered a magical secret. Some manuals
do not have the details on the interpolator. With respect to a pdf not sure
anyone ever scanned it.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 10:03 AM alan bain via time-nuts <
time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:

> Does anyone have a link to a service manual for a 5360?  I keep meaning to
> look at how the interpolator worked. My very vague recollection is an
> integrator between start gate and first count pulse which is then
> discharged while discharge time is counted using an integrator with a much
> smaller C - a bit like a dual slope ADC. Similar between stop and next
> count pulse.  So very different from the 5370 vernier oscillator.
>
> I don’t have one - haven’t seen a physical one in the UK. But actually I
> probably really need a 5370!
>
> Alan
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 at 15:03, Tom Van Baak via time-nuts <
> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Jeremy,
> >
> > Thanks for that video link. I did not remember that the interpolator was
> > in its own oven. The early 5360A used nixie tubes, later models used a
> > plasma display (Panaplex). More info the 5360A here:
> >
> > "Introducing the Computing Counter", p 2
> > "An Electronic Counter for the 1970's", p 9
> > "Computation for Measurement Complexity", p 13
> > https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1969-05.pdf
> > http://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1969-05.pdf
> >
> > "Computing-Counter Measurement Systems", p 2
> > "Programmer is Key to Computing-Counters", p 7
> > https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1970-12.pdf
> > http://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1970-12.pdf
> >
> > "First of the New Breed"
> >
> >
> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/publications/measure/pdf/1969_06.pdf
> >
> > "hp Application Note 116: Precision Frequency Measurements"
> > https://www.hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_116.pdf
> >
> > Some previous discussions:
> >
> > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097227.html (tvb)
> > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097229.html (jra)
> > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097232.html (paul)
> > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-April/097233.html (jeremy)
> > ...
> >
> > A nice set of photos here:
> >
> > https://dopecc.net/calculators/hp/5360a/
> > https://dopecc.net/calculators/hp/5360a/photo/
> >
> > ----
> >
> > The hp 5360A is special to a number of us. It was one of the first
> > examples of a calculator or computer built by hp, complete with external
> > keyboard, display, memory, and stack-based programming language. As a
> > result it could compute clock statistics, including Allan deviation, and
> > this was 50+ years ago! The documents listed above have rich history and
> > are still good reading if you have an interest in frequency counters,
> > computers, stability analysis.
> >
> > Notice that the title of the youtube video is "HP 5360A Computing
> > Counter Repair or Making my Computing Pig Fly Again" and the cartoon
> > used is a pig with wings. I'm not sure what the youtube author intended,
> > but the 5360A actually did "fly". In spite of being large, noisy, and
> > heavy, it was also "portable" and robust. Joe Hafele and Richard Keating
> > famously used a 5360A computing counter during their 1971
> > round-the-world flying clock relativity experiment with 4x 5061A cesium
> > clocks. Spot the 5360 in the 1st and 3rd and last image at:
> >
> > http://leapsecond.com/museum/HK50/
> >
> > More info on the 1971/1972 Hafele-Keating experiment here:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele%E2%80%93Keating_experiment
> >
> > That inspired my time dilation experiments. Here's one using 53132A
> > counters and 6x 5071A cesium clocks:
> >
> > http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/2016a-DSCN8572v.jpg
> > http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/photos.htm
> > http://leapsecond.com/great2016a/
> >
> > /tvb
> >
> >
> > On 11/20/2022 10:48 PM, Jeremy Nichols via time-nuts wrote:
> > > Internally known as “the computing pig” because of its weight.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 10:40 PM Adrian Godwin via time-nuts <
> > > time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> A deep dive into an HP5360A computing counter. I didn't realise HP
> were
> > >> making interpolating counters this early.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uL8wiJ-YI
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