[time-nuts] Re: Please help. Motorola Oncore

[Marcelo Dantas]

Hi Bob,

The modules are old. 1998/2000.

I have left the UT+ running for about 36 Hrs. I have noticed that the
battery on the UT+ is dead, so I am ordering a replacement.
However, while running powered for 36 hours I expected it would see
"something". I wish there was a way to verify some of its internal
information, to see if it was actually collecting something.

The WinOncore software allows you to upload an almanac, and it talks about
a .alm file extension, and on the .gov site I only found a latest_yuma.alm
file, which I uploaded, but it would still show "bad almanac".
I have also tried to upload a .al3 (SEM) file, with the same result.
Both files seem to upload, so I am not sure which one should be the correct
one, or if both are.   I am assuming the yuma because it has the .alm
extension. (still a noob in this matter)

On a new development, the GT+ started showing satellites, it shows 10
satellites visible, zero tracked.
The UT+ regardless of the almanacs uploaded, still shows zero visible, zero
tracked.

I am still trying to find a reference to the correct (expected) almanac
file format and to the eventual calibration procedure referred previously.

Thanks,
Marcelo.


On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:10 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> If it’s showing “bad almanac” then that is part of the issue.
> It may not be *all* of the issue ….
>
> How old are these modules? They went through several
> revisions and each one was a big leap over the previous
> version. If they date back far enough, it could take a very
> long time to come up with an almanac.
>
> Bob
>
> On Sep 19, 2022, at 3:41 PM, Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> @Bjorn: It is the same antenna which worked back then, it was sitting
> there in the same drawer. So, unless it degrades somehow over time, it
> should continue to work I guess.
> I have no idea though how to measure/verify if there's saturation going on.
> When I plugged this antenna to a U-Blox it immediately kicked in with a
> bunch of satellites in view, but the U-Blox might also have a different
> input impedance.
>
> @Bob "off for a while" means since mid 2018. So I immediately thought of
> an almanac, however I could not yet figure out the .alm file it would
> require.
> I have downloaded almanac files from the web, not oncore specific, but
> when importing them via WinOncore I do not get any success/failure
> messages, and the device continues to show "bad almanac"  on its status.
> I have a feeling that the issue is towards bad/outdated internal
> information. Or maybe the calibration John spoke about, if I can figure it
> out, could help.
>
> Thanks,
> Marcelo.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:26 PM Bob kb8tq via time-nuts <
> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> The other gotcha depends a lot on just how long “off for a while” is.
>> If any of these devices are off power for decades, the internal data
>> for the almanac ( = which sats are where ) will be way off.
>>
>> The process of random search is a lot faster with the newer modules.
>> They have way more processing horsepower. Just how many hours
>> (or days) it takes this or that example of an early module to come
>> back to life …. who knows ….
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> > On Sep 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, John Ackermann N8UR via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Some of the early Motorola receivers had an issue with long-term XO
>> drift.  That can result in failure to lock if the unit has been powered off
>> for a long time.  There is a procedure to recalibrate it (no test equipment
>> required).  I think it was written up in a Motorola app note that's
>> available on line, but I can't put my finger on it right now.
>> >
>> > John
>> > -----
>> >
>> > On 9/19/22 07:53, Gregory Beat via time-nuts wrote:
>> >> IF you start with Fixed Position mode, THEN this speeds up process.
>> >> I would also suggest a CLEAR View of Sky for the Antenna.
>> >> Motorola Oncore UT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
>> >> https://synergy-gps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ut-engg-notes.pdf
>> >> Motorola Oncore GT Plus Engineering Notes (circa 2000)
>> >> https://www.tapr.org/pdf/GT_Eng_Notes.pdf
>> >> UT Plus model numbers:
>> >> R5122U111x - right angle OSX
>> >> R5222U111x - right angle OSX, on-board Lithium battery
>> >> R5122U115x - straight OSX
>> >> GT Plus model numbers:
>> >> R3111G111x - standard version
>> >> R3211G111x - on-board Lithium battery
>> >> R3111G114x - SMB antenna connector
>> >> greg, w9gb
>> >> ==
>> >> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 08:42:18 -0400
>> >> From: Marcelo Dantas <marcelo.f.dantas at gmail.com>
>> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Thanks for adding me, and please help. Motorola
>> Oncore
>> >> To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> >> Hi there Everyone,
>> >> Thanks for accepting me to this list.
>> >> I am in (dire) need of help here and maybe one of you is a Motorola
>> Oncore
>> >> user and could assist.
>> >> I have a couple Motorola Oncore modules, which I use mounted to a
>> >> "baseboard" for timing purposes.
>> >> One is a R5222U1115 and the other a R3111G1112.
>> >> They have been sitting in a drawer for some time. Being "some time"
>> since
>> >> the pre-pandemic era.
>> >> Now I am trying to use them again but for whatever reason they won't
>> lock
>> >> to any satellites.
>> >> The modules are starting up, sending 1pps and seem to be accepting
>> commands
>> >> correctly.
>> >> I have also tested the baseboard (power, serial, etc) and the antenna.
>> >> The antenna works well on a third (non-motorola) module.
>> >> I have tried everything, left the modules there running for 24 hours.
>> >> No joy. None of them will lock to any satellites.
>> >> I have tried defaulting them using WinOncore, no change.
>> >> I have also tried to find an almanac file to upload, hoping it would
>> help,
>> >> but couldn't find one with the required .alm file extension.
>> >> At this point I do not know what to do anymore. I have a system
>> (module,
>> >> board, antenna, power, etc.) that should just work, and yet it refuses
>> to.
>> >> Maybe there's some special factory reset? Maybe there's some command I
>> do
>> >> not know about? Maybe other software than WinOncore with some extra
>> >> debug options?
>> >> Any guidance here would be deeply appreciated.
>> >> Thanks a lot in advance,
>> >> Marcelo.
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