[volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Randy Evans
randyevans2688 at gmail.com
Sun Aug 17 20:13:06 EDT 2014
That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for the
display.
Thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net> wrote:
> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
> 0,3458" "Enter".
>
> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
>
> Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>
>
> > Bill,
> >
> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
> >
> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
> RANGE
> > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I
> > guess its no reason to panic yet.
> >
> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
> it
> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Randy:
> > >
> > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
> You
> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
> > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the factory
> > > that
> > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
> from
> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
> > > inside
> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
> any
> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
> as
> > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505 or
> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
> set
> to
> > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
> inside
> of
> > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers to
> > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> > >
> > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel command
> and
> > > I
> > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do this
> > > > correctly?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Randy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Randy:
> > > > >
> > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
> yourself
> a
> > > "4
> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
> > > > >
> > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After ACAL
> I
> > > now
> > > > > read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
> that
> > > the
> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
> variation
> > > of
> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
> > > remember
> > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements with
> 100
> > > PLC
> > > > > the statistics show:
> > > > >
> > > > > Low reading -70 nVDC
> > > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC
> > > > > High reading +3.5 nVDC
> > > > > Total Variation 73 nVDC
> > > > >
> > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
> After
> an
> > > > > hour
> > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed -000.00023
> > > mVDC.
> > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
> > > particular
> > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
> > > > >
> > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
> requiring
> > > low
> > > > > nanovolts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
> choose
> > > > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
> the
> > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the replacement
> > > part
> > > > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
> > > > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
> can
> > > just
> > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
> have
> > > to
> > > > > create or use an existing login account.
> > > > >
> > > > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you could
> > > order
> > > > > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
> and
> > > then
> > > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
> the
> > > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
> > > around
> > > > > 1.3
> > > > > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
> > > display
> > > > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
> > > Board.
> > > > > It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
> doesn't
> > > let
> > > > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
> > > Board
> > > > > assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> > > > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
> volt-nuts at febo.com>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
> 73F,
> > > and
> > > > > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
> reasonable
> > > > > value,
> > > > > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
> the
> > > > > display
> > > > > > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Randy
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
> > > <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
> After
> > > doing
> > > > > an
> > > > > > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
> leads
> > > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
> > > approximately
> > > > > > > -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
> unit
> > > to
> > > > > short
> > > > > > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
> > > ACAL.
> > > > > > > Anyone have any comments on this reading?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Randy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
> > > <richiem5683 at gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
> > > > > measurements
> > > > > > >> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
> > > measurements,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > >> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
> The
> > > > > autocal
> > > > > > >> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
> on
> > > > > everything
> > > > > > >> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
> just
> > > got
> > > my
> > > > > 3458
> > > > > > >> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
> it
> > > up,
> > > > > then
> > > > > > >> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
> aided
> > > by
> > > > > an
> > > > > HP
> > > > > > >> 3325, and another 3458.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
> > > "exchange"
> > > > > > >> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's changed)
> and
> > > > > also
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
> chips.
> > > I
> > > > > did
> > > > > > >> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
> complete,
> > > > > since
> > > > > > >> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
> > > incoming
> > > > > > >> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
> process
> of
> > > any
> > > > > > >> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
> good
> > > > > thing.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > >> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
> 1ppm/year.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it --
> and
> > > > > that
> > > > > > >> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
> until
> > > > > > >> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
> > > > > including
> > > > > > >> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
> first-time
> > > > > cals;
> > > > > my
> > > > > > >> unit was in their data bank.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
> send
> it
> > > for
> > > > > > >> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
> and
> > > you
> > > > > > >> should be good to go.
> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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