[volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Randy Evans
randyevans2688 at gmail.com
Sun Aug 17 23:48:15 EDT 2014
Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
wrong.
thanks,
Randy
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
> the display.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Randy
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net> wrote:
>
>> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
>> 0,3458" "Enter".
>>
>> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>
>>
>> > Bill,
>> >
>> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
>> >
>> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
>> RANGE
>> > -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying. I
>> > guess its no reason to panic yet.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
>> it
>> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Randy
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Randy:
>> > >
>> > > You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
>> You
>> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
>> > > calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
>> factory
>> > > that
>> > > way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
>> from
>> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
>> > > inside
>> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
>> any
>> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
>> as
>> > > expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
>> or
>> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
>> set
>> to
>> > > this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
>> inside
>> of
>> > > the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
>> to
>> > > accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
>> > >
>> > > Bill
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Bill,
>> > > >
>> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
>> command
>> and
>> > > I
>> > > > get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
>> this
>> > > > correctly?
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks,
>> > > >
>> > > > Randy
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Randy:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
>> yourself
>> a
>> > > "4
>> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
>> ACAL I
>> > > now
>> > > > > read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
>> that
>> > > the
>> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
>> variation
>> > > of
>> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
>> > > remember
>> > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
>> with
>> 100
>> > > PLC
>> > > > > the statistics show:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Low reading -70 nVDC
>> > > > > Mean reading -28 nVDC
>> > > > > High reading +3.5 nVDC
>> > > > > Total Variation 73 nVDC
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
>> After
>> an
>> > > > > hour
>> > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
>> -000.00023
>> > > mVDC.
>> > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
>> > > particular
>> > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
>> requiring
>> > > low
>> > > > > nanovolts.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
>> choose
>> > > > > "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
>> the
>> > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
>> replacement
>> > > part
>> > > > > number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
>> > > > > information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
>> can
>> > > just
>> > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
>> have
>> > > to
>> > > > > create or use an existing login account.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
>> could
>> > > order
>> > > > > just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
>> and
>> > > then
>> > > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
>> the
>> > > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
>> > > around
>> > > > > 1.3
>> > > > > inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
>> > > display
>> > > > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
>> > > Board.
>> > > > > It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
>> doesn't
>> > > let
>> > > > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
>> > > Board
>> > > > > assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Bill
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>> > > > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
>> volt-nuts at febo.com>
>> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
>> 73F,
>> > > and
>> > > > > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
>> reasonable
>> > > > > value,
>> > > > > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
>> the
>> > > > > display
>> > > > > > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Randy
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
>> > > <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
>> After
>> > > doing
>> > > > > an
>> > > > > > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
>> leads
>> > > > > with
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
>> > > approximately
>> > > > > > > -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
>> unit
>> > > to
>> > > > > short
>> > > > > > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
>> > > ACAL.
>> > > > > > > Anyone have any comments on this reading?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Thanks,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Randy
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
>> > > <richiem5683 at gmail.com>
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
>> > > > > measurements
>> > > > > > >> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
>> > > measurements,
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > >> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
>> The
>> > > > > autocal
>> > > > > > >> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
>> on
>> > > > > everything
>> > > > > > >> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
>> just
>> > > got
>> > > my
>> > > > > 3458
>> > > > > > >> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
>> it
>> > > up,
>> > > > > then
>> > > > > > >> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
>> aided
>> > > by
>> > > > > an
>> > > > > HP
>> > > > > > >> 3325, and another 3458.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
>> > > "exchange"
>> > > > > > >> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
>> changed)
>> and
>> > > > > also
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > >> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
>> chips.
>> > > I
>> > > > > did
>> > > > > > >> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
>> complete,
>> > > > > since
>> > > > > > >> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
>> > > incoming
>> > > > > > >> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
>> process
>> of
>> > > any
>> > > > > > >> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
>> good
>> > > > > thing.
>> > > > > The
>> > > > > > >> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
>> 1ppm/year.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
>> --
>> and
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > >> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
>> until
>> > > > > > >> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
>> > > > > including
>> > > > > > >> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
>> first-time
>> > > > > cals;
>> > > > > my
>> > > > > > >> unit was in their data bank.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
>> send
>> it
>> > > for
>> > > > > > >> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
>> and
>> > > you
>> > > > > > >> should be good to go.
>> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
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>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
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