[volt-nuts] 732A and Prologix received
Charles Black
cblack at centurytel.net
Mon Aug 25 12:50:32 EDT 2014
Hi Adrian,
Although I have not used the Pomona spade lugs or a nano-voltmeter, my
experience is consistent with yours otherwise.
Anyone who has calibrated (CAL 0 anyway) a 3458A has enough information
to deduce that lowest input short voltage is going to be a copper wire
since the meter is set to zero volts during calibration using a heavy
gauge (14 to 16) copper wire to short the top four input terminals. This
is very convenient since it is so easy to duplicate in the field and
makes simple inexpensive test leads best for high precision
measurements. In order for the 3458A to make full accuracy measurements
(8 digit) NPLC must be set to 1000 (according to the User's Guide). If
you use a lower NPLC value there is a table in the User's Guide that can
be used to determine how accurate your measurements are going to be.
Just for fun I ran several shorts for NPLC 1000 on my 3458A. It has been
about a year since I clid my last CAL 0 so it was going to be
interesting at least for me. The first shunt was my test "U' shaped
shunt that I used for my last CAL 0. Note: STP = Shielded Twisted Pair.
Calibration shunt -0.00021mv +/- 10
pV Equilibration time 5 minutes. 14 gauge per Calibration
Manual.
"U" heavy wire -0.00021mv +/-
10pV Equil. time 5 minutes. Used the through holes in the
Input banana posts only.
Copper wire -0.00019mv +/-
10pV NAPA PVC covered automobile wire at same contact
points as CAL shunt
Standard Ground Plate -0.00040mv +/- 10pV Equil. time 5
minutes. Gold plated ground plate from my Datron 4910
Copper wire -0.00019mv +/-
10Pv Equil. time 2 seconds. Used the banana through holes.
STP 2 meter test lead -0.00021mv +/- 10pV
Equil. time 2 seconds. M27500 24 gauge STP Tefzel insulation.
Banana plugs -0.00021mv +/-
30pV Equil. time 20 minutes. My best "Perfect" gold plated
plugs with copper wire.
Charlie
On 8/25/2014 3:36 AM, acbern at gmx.de wrote:
> I have used the pomona spades, mainly to interface the low emf pomona banana cables to binding posts. I have stopped this, reasons being, they are large and worse, that the pomona spring loaded insulation tube that covers the banana plug conductor uses such a strong spring that slowly the plug works its way out of the spade. this btw also happend to me when I used the pomona low emf binding posts together with the pomona low emf banana cables. overall I m not happy with these.
> so, due to lack of options, I changed to self-made twisted shielded pair of high grade teflon/kapton silver plated copper cable with gold plated copper spades (crimped). I use them not only with the 3458a but also with nanovolt meters. these have higher resolution and accuracy in low level measurements than the 3458a. emf voltages were never an issue with these cables if properly used. I have posted some results doing 34420a stabilty measurements on the pmel forum, and the results are convincing (purpose was actually not to test the cables but the stability of the 34420a, but the emf issue is a part of this of course. we use the 34420a to do low voltage precision measurements on thermal converters where the full scale signal sometimes is 1mV).
> that btw also relates to don's statements below, I do not concurr with his comments about copper telurium as cable and spade material and so on. this material, as stated here many times, is used because it is machinable, for copper spades one would not use it. the 34420a factory cable uses copper cable and copper spades, not telurium-copper. if there was a problem, it would be worse with the 34420a than with the 3458a because of its low level ranges. and again, I have not seen any problems in a chain of (output to input):
> 1.copper-tellurium post from e.g. 8 digit calibrator
> 2.crimped copper spade, gold plated
> 3.silver plated tsp copper cable
> 4a.crimped copper spade to copper-tellurium post or
> 4b.soldered copper connector(34420)
> my consistent results over more than a year using them.
>
>
>
>> Gesendet: Montag, 25. August 2014 um 06:33 Uhr
>> Von: "Orin Eman" <orin.eman at gmail.com>
>> An: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>> Betreff: Re: [volt-nuts] 732A and Prologix received
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Don at True-Cal <truecalservices at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Randy & all,
>>>
>>> You have correctly concluded that some (maybe not all) of your measurement
>>> problem is thermal EMF being added or subtracted in series within your
>>> measurement interconnect. This thermal EMF is generated at the junction of
>>> dissimilar metals when accompanied with thermal gradients between the test
>>> lead and device terminals. You have to eliminate both the dissimilarity of
>>> the metal junctions as well as minimize the thermal differences. The
>>> terminals of the 3458A as well as the 732A are Beryllium Copper so you want
>>> to use the same test lead terminals. Forget the typical Tin plated lugs or
>>> even Gold plated as both are not Beryllium Copper and constitute dissimilar
>>> metals. The best solution (as usually the most expensive) is to use a set
>>> of
>>> Fluke 5440A-7005 (48") cables. I also have just as good results using the
>>> much more flexible Pomona 11174A (lugs end always stay connected to the
>>> 732A) or 11058A with more convenient shielded banana plugs. The Fluke cable
>>> has the added Guard built in but be sure to also use a Guard lead with the
>>> Pomona cabled. The Guard lead does not need to be low thermal EMF. DIY
>>> cables is usually not a good idea because the lead wire to terminal also
>>> constitutes just as critical of junction. The above cables use Tellurium
>>> Copper wire which is usually hard to find and hard to crimp properly and
>>> NEVER solder.
>>>
>>
>> 11058A and 11174A are discontinued at Keysight. However, Pomona 5295 spade
>> to banana cables are available (5295-36 at Mouser et al) and claim that
>> they are designed to minimize thermal EMFs. Datasheet is here:
>> http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/159/d5295_1_01-51722.pdf Any comments on these
>> as an alternative?
>>
>> Orin.
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