[time-nuts] HP10811 vs 00105 OCXO

Sun Aug 9 14:23:07 UTC 2015

Ulrich,
If you're interested in a very good 5MHz OXCO, then I recommend the MTI 
Milliren model 260. (see Ebay #
271915776504). The data sheet is available.from several places, including 
MTI's site.  The daily aging rate for it is spec'ed at 5e-11, thermal 
stability is 2e-10 over -30C to +70C.  That's roughly 10x better than the 
10811, and much cheaper.
The Z3812A GPSDO units both use the MTI OXCO, so you could buy 1 or 2 of the 
REF-0 units and get the good OXCO performance plus all the other stuff that 
surrounds it.

Cheers,
Dave M

KA2WEU--- via time-nuts wrote:
> How good or bad is the 10811 and which one on   ebay   is a better
> choice ?
> I am looking for a very goo 5 MHz crystal oscillator  with
> documentation .
>
> Thanks, Ulrich N1UL
>
>
> In a message dated 8/8/2015 7:16:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> kb8tq at n1k.org writes:
>
> Hi
>
> Ok, so John’s observation was the correct one. The data  we are
> looking at
> is *not* the
> performance of the OCXO’s but the strange  behavior of the counter at
> short ADEV Tau’s.
>
> Sorry for my bashing your  poor 10811.
>
> Bob
>
>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 12:25 PM,  timeok at timeok.it wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I try to  ansver to all you:
>>
>> Luciano, how was the blue trace taken? Is  this from your DMTD
>> project?
> If so, it's looking promising.
>> The green  and magenta traces are definitely in the right ballpark
>> for
> measurements on a  5370-class counter. At 3E-11 @ t=12s the magenta
> trace is optimistic but not  outrageously so, while the green trace
> looks exactly like I'd expect for a  typical 10811 measured on a
> 5370. The observed noise is
> due entirely to the  counter until about t=200s. We see a glimpse of
> the 10811's typical ADEV at  about 250 seconds, just before either
> drift or ADEV uncertainty causes the  trace to turn upwards. A longer
> run would be needed to distinguish between  these two situations.
>>
>> -- john, KE5FX
>> Miles Design  LLC
>>
>> r: no, all the measurements are taken using an  HP53132A  in
>> frequency
> mode. The difference can be the gate time. Using 1  second the
> resolution is lower than using 2 Second that permit the max  counter
> resolution.
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Well an  un-stated assumption of mine was that they all came from the
> same measurement  system and that it
>> had the same floor under all  circumstances….
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> r: all the measurements  are under the same conditions except for the
> gate time of the counter.
>>
>> Hi Luciano,
>>
>> Can you give me the link to your ADEV  posting image about 10811 vs
>> 105
> oscillators?  I had it and now can't  seem to find it.  I wanted to
> look at your plots as I read John Miles'  comments.  Many thanks.
>>
>> I have two very high  performing HP10811-60109 OCXO units which I got
> from Corby.
>>
>>  Many thanks.
>>
>> Jim Robbins
>> N1JR
>>
>> r:  Jim, I will load soon some files on my site. The 105B I have is a
> fantastic  exception, unfortunately it have a defect, may be a bad
> solder inside  cause randomly a phase jump and return to the original
> phase trend, so all The  long term ADEV are distorted by this problem
> I have to fix.
>>
>>  Tom VB, i will do all the cross measurements on 10811, 00105 and
> rubidium I  have and i will upload they but I need time to do this.
>> Unfortunately  I have only the HP53132A as TIC and my best reference
>> are
> four HP5065A. I  normally use the counter function because the TI
> function
> on 1 PPS have 100  time less resolution.
>> Will be interesting doing also the Phase noise  tests. I will do it.
>> please see:
> http://www.timeok.it/files/time_and_frequency_house_standard_201r.pdf
>>
>> Luciano
>> www.timeok.it
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat 08/08/15 02:23 , Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Well an un-stated  assumption of mine was that they all came from
>>> the
> same
>>>  measurement system and that it
>>> had the same floor under all  circumstances….
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>> On  Aug 7, 2015, at 5:21 PM, John Miles  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> If that data  is correct, then the 10811 you have is defective.
>>>>>  Bob
>>>>
>>>> Well... some of the data is reasonable  for a scenario where a
>>>> counter is being used to measure  OCXOs.
>>>>
>>>> Looking at the ADEV plot, I'd say the  blue trace (HP105B vs
>>>> 5065A) is
>>> the most questionable one if it  came from a standalone TIC or
>>> frequency counter, because 7E-12 @  t=1s isn't achievable with most
>>> counters under most circumstances.  A Wavecrest box can measure at
>>> that level if it's
> set
>>> up  _perfectly_ to take bursts of 100+ wrap-free averages within a
>>> small fraction of the t0 interval. It might also be doable with an
>>> HP 5370A/B under similar conditions, but I'd have less confidence
>>> that the
> averaging
>>> isn't distorting the measurement. So while It  looks like a valid
>>> measurement of an OCXO with some minor  crosstalk or other external
>>> interference, that may just be a  coincidence.
>>>>
>>>> Luciano, how was the blue trace  taken? Is this from your DMTD
>>>> project?
>>> If so, it's looking  promising.
>>>>
>>>> The green and magenta traces are  definitely in the right ballpark
>>>> for
>>> measurements on a 5370-class  counter. At 3E-11 @ t=12s the magenta
> trace is
>>> optimistic but not  outrageously so, while the green trace looks
>>> exactly like I'd  expect for a typical 10811 measured on a 5370.
>>> The observed
> noise
>>>  is due entirely to the counter until about t=200s. We see a
>>> glimpse of
> the
>>> 10811's typical ADEV at about 250 seconds, just before either
>>> drift or ADEV uncertainty causes the trace to turn upwards. A
>>> longer run would be
> needed
>>> to distinguish between these two  situations.
>>>>
>>>> -- john, KE5FX
>>>>  Miles Design LLC
>>>>
>>>>
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Dave M 