[time-nuts] Spectracom 8161 "Standard Frequency Receiver - Oscillator" for WWVB (and question...)

[paul swed]

Which makes it a whole lot more fun then the lazy person's GPSDO. It is
interesting to watch and listen. You do see things that are odd and
explained. But sometimes it makes no sense at all.
Omega was mentioned earlier. I barely started to tinker with it and they
killed it off. We had a large receiver onboard the ship.
But back to the 8161.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 3:03 PM Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> You *are* talking about a 60 KHz sine wave when playing with WWVB. The
> typical receiver had a fairly narrow passband. This generally was
> accomplished
> with both high Q tuned circuits and a crystal filter. The typical antenna
> loop antenna
> also had a fairly high Q tune on it. Even if the signal was perfect, the
> receiving
> setup would have struggled once you got into the small fractions of a
> cycle sort of
> region ….
>
> For that matter, the matching network at the base of each of the transmit
> antennas
> has some pretty big tuned elements in it. They most certainly “chug”
> around any
> time the “breeze” blows in Colorado ( = most of the time …. :) ).
>
> Propagation at 60 KHz is also impacted by the weather. Push a cold front
> with a
> bunch of thunderheads into the path and you get a blip in the delay. Lots
> of other
> things get into that mix as well.
>
> Lots of variables …..
>
> Bob
>
> > On Oct 5, 2020, at 9:52 AM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hal and Magnus its pretty interesting. WWVB is indeed a skywave behavior
> > further out and at night. It exactly behaves like LORAN C and DCF and
> > others. But during the day I think it generally behaves like ground wave
> > from what I have experienced. What seems to be interesting is that the
> day
> > to day is somewhat repeatable. There was a NIST and HP document back in
> the
> > 1960-70s time ( Think its in the hp vlf117 manual also)that talks about
> day
> > to day use for longer measurement periods. I was surprised by the
> details.
> > Also consider the time frame most oscillators were low stability back
> then
> > and the Cesiums were coming into play.
> > Fun history.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 8:18 AM Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.se>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On 2020-10-05 11:20, Hal Murray wrote:
> >>>> On a WWVB setup you get 10’s of us ( yes microseconds) of movement
> at
> >>>> sunrise and sunset. You get as much as 10us between day and night.
> >>> Somehow, I was thinking that WWVB was ground wave and wouldn't be
> >> effected by
> >>> changes in the height of the ionosphere.  Am I totally out of it, or is
> >> 10s of
> >>> uSec just a lot better than the day/night shift you get with WWV?
> >>
> >> You will for sure see a mix of ground wave and ionspheric reflection,
> >> and those will vector sum. Depending on your distance your milage may
> >> vary. The same is seen at 77,5 kHz (DCF77) and 100 kHz (LORAN-C). The
> >> solar flare effect documented in the 8161 manual is for sure an
> >> ionspheric reflection effect.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Magnus
> >>
> >>
> >>
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