[time-nuts] Fwd: Re: Project Great

[ew]

If you are in Germany the Zugspitze at 2962 meter and Garmisch 700 meter would be perfect. Good amenities at both locations.                                                                                                                                                                                                         Bert Kehren                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

In a message dated 11/27/2021 5:12:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jim at luxfamily.com writes:Â 
On 11/27/21 12:37 PM, Thomas Valerio wrote:
> I think that Tom's GREAT adventure is kind of what sealed the deal making
> me a time-nut or at least a time-nuts lurker, a lot of this stuff is still
> little over my head, but I keep reading.
>
> If anyone is inclined and has the clocks and the kids ( I don't have
> either ), there is always Mount Evans and Pikes Peak, although you may
> have to leave the clocks behind overnight.  Mount Evans is still on my
> bucket list but without clocks and two or three days of time to monitor
> them, I don't think I will be doing the Mount Evans edition of GREAT.  For
> anyone that is flush enough to afford or can beg, borrow or steal access
> to a Microsemi chip scale atomic clock, I think a Mount Evans edition
> would be an awesome addition to Tom's original work.
>
>Â  Â  Thomas Valerio
>
I don't think a CSAC would be good enough.

Tom's experiment was 22 ns out of 42 hours or about 1.45E-13. That's 
quite a bit smaller than a CSAC adev over that period.

There's a variety of roads that go to ~12,000 ft in Colorado, about 
~10,000 in CA (Tioga Pass isn't closed yet), so you can get about 3x 
change, but still you're talking <1E-12.

Mammoth Mtn has a gondola to the top, but it's only 11,000. There may be 
a ski resort in CO that's higher.


>> For newcomers to time-nuts, Andy is asking about my DIY gravitational
>> time dilation experiment(s).
>>
>>Â  > What am I missing?
>>
>> It looks like you used the wrong value (or wrong units) for "h".
>>
>> The summit of Mt Rainier is 14411 ft (4400 m), but the highest point on
>> Mt Rainier that is accessible by road is the Paradise visitors center at
>> 5400 ft. Our house is at 1000 ft elevation so the net difference in
>> elevation of the clocks was 4400 ft (1340 m).
>>
>> The clock(s) on the mountain ran fast by gh/c² = 9.8 × 1340 / (3e8)² =
>> 1.5e-13. Fast clocks gain time. We stayed for about 42 hours so the net
>> time dilation was 42×3600 × gh/c² = 22 ns.
>>
>> ----
>>
>> For more information see the Project G.R.E.A.T. 2005 page:
>>
>> http://leapsecond.com/great2005/
>>
>> Better yet, these two recent talks from 2018 and 2020 cover all 3 GREAT
>> experiments:
>>
>> <http://web.stanford.edu/group/scpnt/pnt/PNT18/presentation_files/I08-VanBaak-GPS_Flying_Clocks_and_Relativity.pdf>
>>
>> <http://leapsecond.com/ptti2020/2020-PTTI-tvb-Atomic-Timekeeping-Hobby.pdf>
>>
>> Lots of time nutty photos in both of those!
>>
>> /tvb
>>
>>
>> On 11/27/2021 7:33 AM, Andy Talbot wrote:
>>> Just been reading your adventures with 3 Cs clocks, a mountain and 3
>>> kids,
>>> but I can't make the estimate of time dilation work out.
>>> You measured ~ 23ns and say it agrees with calculation
>>>
>>> The equation quoted in a related reference, for "low elevations" is
>>> g.h/c²
>>> which if you plug in g = 9.81 m/s²  and h = 4300m for Mt Rainer gives
>>> an
>>> expected value of 4.7 * 10^-16.
>>> Over 2 days, 2 * 86400s, that would be 81 ns in total, four times your
>>> value
>>>
>>> What am I missing?
>>>
>>> Was just speculating what Ben Nevis at a mere 1340m height might offer
>>>
>>> Andy
>>> www.g4jnt.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe
>>> send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send
>> an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
>
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.